This week on my podcast It’s a Lot, I joined forces with my friend Sarah McGrath, a bookstagrammer, avid reader, physical therapist, and mom, for a book chat about two of Shirley Jackson’s books that represent the two very different sides of her work: We Have Always Lived in the Castle and Life Among the Savages. Jackson is well known for her gothic/psychological horror; most of us read her famous short story “The Lottery” in school, and The Haunting of Hill House was adapted into a Netflix series a few years ago. But her domestic memoirs are lesser known in 2026, and I love them as much as her other writing!

Sarah and I discussed some Shirley Jackson lore, from her difficult relationship with her mother to her unhappy years at the University of Rochester, from getting married young to Stanley Hyman to their challenging marriage. Though he respected her as an intellectual equal, he cheated on her with his college students and did nothing around their house or with their kids (particularly when they were little). We also explored We Have Always Lived in the Castle, debating whether or not Merricat might have OCD, discussing key themes, and appreciating Jackson’s signature humor.

During the second half of our conversation, we chatted about Life Among the Savages, sharing some of our favorite anecdotes about Jackson’s 4 chaotic and imaginative children, highlighting differences between the 1950s and now, and crying about how cheap everything was back then.

I had a blast making this episode (and spent way too much time researching it), so I hope you enjoy listening to it even a fraction as much as I enjoyed creating it!

Download the episode now, and in the meantime, enjoy some memes and quotes from the conversation.